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Aidan3 View Drop Down
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  Quote Aidan3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Little Yellow Dangler
    Posted: 27 Dec 2008 at 9:16am
Can anyone provide some more information on this very interesting clematis? Last September I was sent one from a fellow Danish clematarian as a cutting and it has been growing in my greenhouse very slowly since then. I believe it is related to repens.
 
I came across a reference to it in "The Clematis 2006" page 39. It says that Wim Snoeijer writes that Maurice Horn has contacted the original introducer of C. Little Yellow Dangler and he has chosen the name of Lanterns of Emei Shan. Registration has apparently been accepted under this name. 
 
As Dan Hinkley registered "Bells of Emei Shan" for a variant of C.Repens that he found in Emei Shan, Sichuan, China, would he also be the introducer of "Lanterns of Emei Shan"?
 
Is Little Yellow Dangler another variant of C.Repens? Any information anyone can provide about this clematis would be gratefully received.
 
Thanks
 
Aidan         
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  Quote Wim Snoeijer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2008 at 3:46pm

Dear Aidan,

The name of this cultivar has a bit of a story. As far as I know the plant was introduced first under its collectors number : Clematis DJHC795, offered by Heronswood Nursery and also distributed by Brewster Rogerson.
 
The reference to the name Clematis 'Little Yellow Dangler' by me in "The Clematis 2006" is according the ICNCP an "invalid name" as there is no description.
However, the name Clematis 'Little Yellow Dangler' to which I refer to in 2006 came from the BCS Seedlist 2003 and as there is a reference with that name in the Seedlist it is a valid name.
 
Later, the collector Dan Hinkley decided to give the plant a definitive name : Clematis 'Bells of Emei Shan'.
 
So there is a good argue following the ICNCP strictly that the name Clematis 'Little Yellow Dangler' might be the valid name, but I prefer the introducers name which is Clematis 'Bells of Emei Shan'. Of course rules are necessary to deal with cultivar nomenclature but when you take out one name it is sometimes better to follow the introducers/breeders preference. This also for the stability of the cultivar nomenclature.
 
I think there is no problem in the conclusion that all plants grown in cultivation today under the name Clematis repens are synonym of Clematis 'Bells of Emei Shan'.
 
To add to the story, the Clematis nursery where I work decided that the cultivar name was not that easy for the trade and so added the fancy trade designation : Clematis I AM© YELLOW.
 
A last argue about the cultivar is that it was distributed by seed and sometimes still is. In Clematis it is not common that cultivars are propagated by seed, we mainly deal with clones. But according the ICNCP it is okay, according and accepting several rules, that a cultivar can be propagated by seed. In fact, most cultivars man grows today are seed grown with reference to rice, wheat, barley, maize, cauliflower, carrot, to name a few, and the odd ornamental annual of course.
 
Wim
 
 
 
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  Quote Aidan3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2008 at 8:49pm
Dear Wim
 
Thank you so much for taking the time to reply and explaining the story of this clematis. I was hoping that you would reply!  However, there are a couple of points that I am still not clear on.
 
Firstly are you saying "Lanterns of Emei Shan" is the same as "Bells of Emei Shan" and that the word "Lanterns" was a mistake in "The Clematis 2006" article and should be read as "Bells". Sorry to be pedantic but it is important that this point is clear. 
 
Secondly you say all plants grown in cultivation under the name Clematis Repens are synonyms of Clematis "Bells of Emei Shan". I think there are still significant differences between Clematis Repens and Clematis Bells of Emei Shan, based on my own experience of growing these two plants. I also have a cross between Repens and Kweichowensis for extra comparison. 
 
My repens was obtained from Sheila Chapman last summer and is very different in leaf form from Little Yellow Dangler (I cannot comment on the flowers as mine have not flowered yet). "Little Yellow Dangler" has very small leaves - much smaller than "Repens". Yellow Dangler's leaves are rounded and 3-lobed with the centre lobe much longer than the side lobes. My Repens' leaves are not 3-lobed, are larger and serrated at the edges and sometimes the leaf is slightly curved.
 
It is probably fair to say that further study needs to be given to these plants.  
 
I realise it is difficult to appreciate without posting photos, so I will do this in the next few days.
 
Best wishes
 
Aidan
 
 
 
 
       
 


Edited by Aidan3 - 28 Dec 2008 at 8:55pm
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  Quote Wim Snoeijer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2008 at 12:39pm

Dear Aidan,

At the moment I posted my reply I realized I forgot to refer to 'Lanterns of Emei Shan'. Sorry about that.

The name Clematis 'Lanterns of Emei Shan' in "The Clematis" 2006 is also invalid because there is no description. The name 'Lanterns of Emei Shan' is a true "nomen nudum" (naked name), to use the correct term.

Now about your conclusion that the plant you grow as Clematis repens is different then Clematis 'Bells of Emei Shan' which is in contradiction with mine (which is no problem of course ).
First we have to conclude we are talking about the cultivated Clematis repens and that we are not talking about the botanical species that grows in China. Okay, that is settled because you talk about the plant you grow and as you live in the UK you talk about your cultivated Clematis repens. Reading your decision now I still find it no problem to conclude that the plants grown in cultivation with the name Clematis repens are the same as Clematis 'Bells of Emei Shan', but perhaps I should narrow this to refer to the plants originally obtained via Heronswood or via Brewster / BCS. I am not aware of another source but you never know.
 
When we had several hunderds plants at the nursery of Clematis 'Bells of Emei Shan' I tried hard to find ternate leaves. I managed but only a few. The leaves are normally simple and from those simple leaves again leaves might be lobed. This has perhaps to do with the age of the plant. However the plant flowers freely on young shoots the plant itself might still be in it juvenile stage. And especially leaves can be quite different on juvenile plants compared with adult plants. Even new shoots on an adult plant can have quite different leaves at the base of the shoot as juvenile leaves compared with the adult leaves later on that same shoot.
So for me I find it okay that you write that the leaves of your plants differ. This is no reason for me to conclude that the two plants you grow are different. It is also normal that leaves that try to become compound are smaller in size than simple leaves. And on those several hunderds plants we had at the nursery we had a mix of leaves that had either an entire leaf margin or a serrated leaf margin. This is usually a sign that the plant is (however it flowers) no an adult yet.
 
This variation of the leaves is enourmous in Clematis and reading the above means it also exsists in cultivars, whether cloned or not.
 
To put all the names in order, with a little bit of help in letter size and colour to make things even more clear;
 
Clematis 'Bells of Emei Shan'
      synonym
      Clematis repens Hort. ex Heronswood, Rogerson & BCS
      Clematis 'Lanterns of Emei Shan' nomen nudum
      Clematis 'Little Yellow Dangler'
      trade designation
      Clematis I AM© YELLOW
 
I hope it all makes sence.
 
Best wishes from Holland,
 
Wim
 
 
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  Quote ton hannink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2008 at 5:30pm
Aidan,
 
I have done the crossing of repens(I have got as seed) x kweichowensis and I have kept 3 plants for myself and you see the results ibn the pictures. Of the crossing REP002 I have seeds(interested?).
 
REP001
 
REP002
 
REP003
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  Quote Aidan3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2008 at 9:17pm
Ton
 
Yes please I would be very interested in some seeds from REP002. Shall I email you?
 
Aidan
 
 
 
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  Quote Aidan3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2008 at 9:26pm
Wim
 
Thanks for your patient explanation of Repens and Bells of Emei Shan. Did your nursery supply British nurseries with Repens? I am trying to work out where my plant originated from.
 
Here are photos of my repens and yellow dangler (it was night time so I used the flash and they are not quite clear). I will try and take some close ups during the day. Maybe the yellow dangler is a juvenile form but the leaves are quite different - not so easy to see in the photos.
 
Aidan
 
 
Repens - the leaves are pointed and serrated
 
 
 
 
Yellow Dangler - the leaves are 3 lobed
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  Quote Wim Snoeijer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2008 at 10:00am
Good Morning Aidan,
 
Thanks for taking the trouble to take pictures and also the pictures by Ton are very nice. Did you notice the one green fly in the flower? I like captured insects which you only notice when you have the picture on the screen.
 
Yes, we sold Clematis 'Bells of Emei Shan' to the UK. We do not export ourselves, all our abroad trade is via export nurseries. Because of that we only see order numbers of the retail nurseries/garden centres and no names.  But as we have good contact with Sheila (she stopped now and passed on her clematis business to another nursery) and Thorncroft we know they buy from us. We also know that Taylor buys from us.
Sometimes a nursery buys directly from us but that does not happen often.
 
Since we had those couple of hunderds Clematis 'Bells of Emei Shan' a couple of years ago, which we sold of course, we did not manage to get such big numbers again, but we keep trying.
 
I hope this information is of help.
 
Best wishes,
 
Wim
 
 
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  Quote Aidan3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2008 at 4:52pm

Wim

I have taken some better pictures of yellow dangler and repens (see below). You can see the differences in the leaves better, but as you say, dangler may just be a juvenile version of repens. Time will tell.  

Regards

Aidan
 
Repens
 
Yellow dangler
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  Quote Ron.G.Carlile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2009 at 5:05pm
Hi Aiden
I cannot remember whether it was three or four years past i was sent a packet of seeds from Mike Brown with the name C.repens on the packet to try out ., 
I had fair germination , kept a few for myself and gave the rest to Mike to sell
for the BCS .  The ones I saved for myself have flowered similar to the photo
REP01 by Ton Hannink , the leaves have been as your yellow dangler leaves
in the centre of the photo. I have taken a photo of one pair still on the plant ,
which is a bit rough I will try to put it on screen if I can remember .
The growth of the plants preferences to grow downwardly rather than climb the flowers hang in groups on long stems . I will have to wait until later in the year to get a photo. As Wim states so well,  unless a plant is cloned there are a number of factors that are unknown , that can  change the form of the plant
and so the name .I have found the subject very interesting and the interplay of information can only help others to understand Clematis , thank you all for your input
Best wishes and a Happy new Year to All
Ron.C  
I have been trying to put t photo on this page but I can't get the insert image to work , my popup blocker is switched of so what is the matter Confused
 
 


Edited by Ron.G.Carlile - 12 Jan 2009 at 4:10pm
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  Quote Nunn00123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2009 at 9:00pm

Hello Aidan,

When we visited the Brewster collection some years ago he had two C. repens with different collection numbers, I could look them up but is possibly irellevant now, as I believe only one of the cultivars was introduced to Europe, the one refered to by Wim. Incidentally I still refer to my plant obtained from Herronswood  by its collection number. I also have a seedling of this plant from Mike Brown that has slightly different leaves and longer flowers to the numbered plant, this has the name Mikes repens. Bear in mind that seed grown plants can exhibit variations and open pollenation can lead to hybrids. You can possibly blame my wife for the name little dangler that was only a descriptive name that stuck certainly with Mike Smith of Hythe Alpines. Mikes plants were either from cuttings of my plant or from Malcomb Oviett-Hamm.

Best Wishes
 
Roy W Nunn
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  Quote Aidan3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2009 at 9:07pm
Hi Roy
 
Thanks for the additional information. I think there may be the basis for a future article in the clematis here! It would be useful to know the Heronswood collection number that all European cultivars originate from either as cuttings or seedlings.  Presumably Heronswood chose the best cultivar from the seeds that germinated from the expedition to Emei Shan? My yellow dangler is a cutting from a plant that originated from USA, although my repens is from Sheila Chapman's nursery.
 
Regards
 
Aidan   
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  Quote Aidan3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2009 at 9:16pm
Sorry
 
I have just realised that Wim already mentioned the collection number earlier in this thread as Clematis DJHC795 (which is Dan Hinkley's collectors number) offered by Heronswood and distributed by Brewster Rogerson.
 
Aidan
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  Quote Ron.G.Carlile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2009 at 4:27pm
Hi Aiden
I have just seen that I put the wrong name of the plants in my post 3 Jan 09 .   The seed Mike brown sent me were C repens  .  I germinated a large number of the seeds and  gave most of them to Mike to sell or give to members of the BCS .
I can only apologies for the slip , most likely Bad eye sight and old age .  I have found a photo of the plant growing in a raised pot , but does not show the flowers well . I will try to put it on the site later .
Ron. C.
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  Quote Nunn00123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2009 at 9:17pm
Hi Aiden,
You may like to know that some of the leaves of  my DJHC 795 are tri-lobed, but I would say that most are simple. Mikes seedling however the leaves are all simple. Flowers of Mikes seedling are slightly longer and thinner than 795, but both are identical bright yellow in colour. Trials of hardiness in our garden in Cambridge, proved that the plant would not survive over winter in the garden. Definately is a cold greenhouse plant, that also apreciates a little extra heating over winter, as flowering is enhanced through the next summer. Also the plant seems to prefer to be out of direct sunlight especially in summer.
 
Roy W Nunn
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  Quote Aidan3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2009 at 11:35pm
Roy (and Ron)
 
Thanks. My yellow danger cutting sounds exactly like Roy's 795 and my repens from Sheila sounds more like Mike Brown's. These may of course just be variations as Roy and Wim say or hybridisation due to open pollination. I will be monitoring how my plants develop.
 
Thanks also to your tips about how to keep them - I have just bought a paraffin heater for the greenhouse and have used it in the cold weather.
 
Aidan      
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  Quote Aidan3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2009 at 11:53pm
Wim
 
I would like to ask you some final questions (I promise) on the subject of Repens. It concerns Clematis "Buckland Cascade". In "The Clematis 2007" journal you say this is a hybrid from Clematis Songarica x Clematis Bells of Emei Shan and is placed in the Tangutica group. 
 
Was songarica the seed parent and repens the pollen parent? How much of repens can be seen in this plant? Could you provide some information on the growth habit, size and hardiness of Buckland Cascade and is it available in Britain?
 
Many thanks for all your help.
 
Aidan. 
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  Quote Wim Snoeijer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2009 at 8:21am
Good morning Aidan,
 
I guess I am not the right person to answer your question about Clematis 'Buckland Cascade'.
 
The plant was raised by Everett Leeds and the provided parentage by Everett was Clematis songarica X Clematis 'Bells of Emei Shan'. In the international world of breeding the seed plant is always mentioned first. Because of that you need to keep in mind that the parents provided in the RHS Clematis register are listed alphabetically.
 
The most obvious characteristic 'Buckland Cascade' has from the pollen parent is the more or less hanging down habitus. There is a nice picture from Everett on the Hull website, see http://www.clematis.hull.ac.uk/new-clemdetail.cfm?dbkey=3358
Other characteristics are less obvious, for instance the less serrate leaf margin and the more green leaf colour in 'Buckland Cascade', which are more serrate and glaucous on the seed parent.
 
I hope Forum members from the UK can help out to reply your other questions.
 
Best wishes from Holland,
 
Wim  
 
picture of Clematis 'Buckland Cascade'
 
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  Quote Ron.G.Carlile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2009 at 10:04pm
Hi Aiden and Roy,
I have now through Mike Brown traced the source of the seeds that I germinated of C.repens .    I am told the original C.repens seeds were imported into the UK by Everett Leeds and Mike Brown  One of the plants given to Mike bore the seeds which Mike sent  to me .  I germinated them , and all the plants Mike gave away ( or sold ) were from that Batch that I gave him . so any plants Mike gave to people were from the same lot of seeds .  The four I kept for myself have just a variation in flower size all are grown in the same soil batch.
Wim is the most able I think to tell us if all the seedlings from a couple of seed heads can be classed as the  same named variety or not . I made no attempt to name then , I just enjoy them  as C repens .  I trust this information is of some help to people who have these plants .
Best Wishes
Ron.C


Edited by Ron.G.Carlile - 18 Jan 2009 at 11:38am
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  Quote Nunn00123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2009 at 1:31pm

Re; Ron Carlisle’s reply, please note that some of the information is not correct, namely that Everett Leeds imported DJHC 795 plants from Dan Hinkley and not seed. Both Mike Brown and myself and others were recipients of these plants. Mikes plant produced viable seed which was the source of my seedling plant. Sheila Chapman’s plants were obtained from Malcomb Oviett-Hamm, but the source of his plants is unknown to me.

Also reference to C. Buckland Cascade, my plant has been in a Yorkshire Long Tom clay pot for some years, planted in my Alpine Compost mix. It spends the spring, summer and autumn on the patio standing in a chimney pot, where its growth cascades downwards. My plant makes a maximum of 1 metre of growth from being cut back to the edge of the pot in late spring.  One other point which was unknown to Everett and Mike, until I pointed it out to them, is that the flowers are scented. My plant spends its winters in the cold greenhouse, as I have not carried out any hardiness trials to date.

Re; Ron Carlisle’s reply, please note that some of the information is not correct, namely that Everett Leeds imported DJHC 795 plants from Dan Hinkley and not seed. Both Mike Brown and myself and others were recipients of these plants. Mikes plant produced viable seed which was the source of my seedling plant. Sheila Chapman’s plants were obtained from Malcomb Oviett-Hamm, but the source of his plants is unknown to me.

Also reference to C. Buckland Cascade, my plant has been in a Yorkshire Long Tom clay pot for some years, planted in my Alpine Compost mix. It spends the spring, summer and autumn on the patio standing in a chimney pot, where its growth cascades downwards. My plant makes a maximum of 1 metre of growth from being cut back to the edge of the pot in late spring.  One other point which was unknown to Everett and Mike, until I pointed it out to them, is that the flowers are scented. My plant spends its winters in the cold greenhouse, as I have not carried out any hardiness trials to date.

Roy W Nunn

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  Quote Wim Snoeijer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2009 at 8:18am
Dear Clematarians,
 
As Roy write, Clematis 'Buckland Cascade' is scented indeed and very nice too. For clematarians that collect scented clematis it is a "must have" plant.
 
Wim
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  Quote Ron.G.Carlile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2009 at 11:35am
Hello Roy.
I appear to have not made my self clear , The information I had was from a phone conversation with Mike Brown a few days ago. He told me that he and
Everettt had imported from Dan Hinkkly I thought he said seed .  The plant he had was the plant that the seed he sent me came from .  I was aware that there were other , sources as I heard Sheila and Malcomb had C.repens . , also.
The point I was making was that I had given back to Mike over 40 plants that he
had given or sold at meetings that were third  at least generation Plants . Does the C.repen set true seed if open pollinated .  I kept back five of the plants , and
they do not seem to be clones of each other .  I am now down to 4 as i tried to transplant one at the wrong time .  You said you have not tested the hardness
of your plants , I left mine out all last winter , whilst they were late flowering they still gave a good display , at present they are in a cold  house , I hope for even a better display .  I do not know if they are scented as I have no sense of smell after a car accident .   The flowers are of a similar colour to Ton Hannink
flower REP 001 but a bit more tubular .  There is a picture of the plant stuck on the import photo site but I can not get it to transfer to this page . I have not tried Buckland Cascade , it would be interesting to see the difference .
My interest was that there are all those plants Mike passed on out there it would be great to know how they performed .
Sorry to cause any aggravation , I have learned much from your mail of great interest ,  I find the cross information from this BCS site of great interest . long may it go on .
Best Regards
Ron.C    ( Carlile )
PS.  It would be interesting to com pair the plants you grew from Mike's seed
with mine . R.C


Edited by Ron.G.Carlile - 18 Jan 2009 at 11:40am
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  Quote Aidan3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2009 at 11:55pm
Ron
 
Thanks for clarifying.
 
Wim
 
I'm curious about the plant described as clematis repens Finet et Gagnep by Magnus Johnson. Finet et Gagnepain seem to have first mentioned this in 1903 and W.T.Wang in Flora Reipublicae Popularis Sinicae in 1980. Johnson says that the pictures in Finet et Gagnep and in Flora Reip . Pop.Sinicae differs among other features in its leaf shape. Is it the same plant found by Dan Hinckley?
 
Also Crug Farm have a clematis Bells of Emei Shan found by Dan Hinkley under a different collectors number.
 
Do you know anywhere where I can get Buckland Cascade from as I have done a search and can't find any clematis nurseries in UK selling it?
 
Thanks
 
Aidan
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  Quote Wim Snoeijer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2009 at 7:58am

Good morning Aidan,

I understand that Dan Hinckley had 2 introduction numbers, but that is about all I know.
There are also rumours that the plant known as 'Bells of Emei Shan' is not a Clematis repens. That is why I wrote previously that we are writing here about the cultivated Clematis repens and not the botanical Clematis repens that grows in China. This is very important to keep in mind. The reason is that the botanical species from Section Campanella are quite difficult to identify. This becomes clear also in this forum because of the different leaf shapes, plant age, etc.
 
So when we talk/write about 'Bells of Emei Shan' it is perfectly clear where we talk/write about, but when we talk about the botanical Clematis repens than it is not so sure anymore.
 
I cannot confirm if the plant found by Dan Hinckley is the same as repens from Finet & Gagnepain, nor can I confirm what the plant offered by Crug Farm is. This can only be done if I grow the plants myself or through herbarium specimens.
 
In 2007 we had about 50 'Buckland Cascade' at the nursery but no sale so at the end of the selling season all plants were thrown away. This was done by my collegues and they did not tell me before hand but afterwards, so I could not save a plant, unfortunately.
So, I join you in your search for a plant of 'Buckland Cascade' as I would like to make a herbarium specimen. Any offers somewhere? I will join the BCS AGM in March so that would be a possibility for exchange.
 
Sorry I can not be of more help.
 
Regards,
 
Wim
 
 
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  Quote Aidan3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2009 at 1:40pm

Wim

Thanks for explaining this. I think my next task is to find out more about the botanical Clematis repens - that could be a task and a half!

I read in a BCS newsletter that Everett Leeds was the person who crossed clematis songarica with repens and this is also mentioned on clematis on the web so perhaps he might be the person to speak to. Were your Buckland Cascades raised from cuttings or seeds from this source?
 
Thanks
 
Aidan   
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  Quote Wim Snoeijer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2009 at 7:56pm

Dear Aidan,

Everett gave me a plant of Clematis 'Buckland Cascade'. From this plant we took softwood cuttings.
 
Regards,
 
Wim
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  Quote Jackog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2009 at 11:48pm
Aidan,
You will find an article in "The Clematis 2003" interesting, it provides some helpful info about what must be the first (modern) entry of C.repens into the UK. See page 67.
Regards,
                 Jack


Edited by Jackog - 21 Jan 2009 at 12:06am
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  Quote Aidan3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2009 at 1:14pm
Hi Jack
 
Thanks for the letting me know. Unfortunately I only have copies of the journal for the last 2 years so I don't have access to this.
 
Thanks
 
Aidan  
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  Quote Everett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2009 at 10:38pm
Hello Aiden (& Wim), I think Jack is going to send you a copy of the article from the old Journal. I crossed songarica with repens mainly with a view to introducing scent. Happily I was successful. Presently I have 2 plants from which I hope to propagate by cuttings. Mike Brown had a great plant which flowered profusely so he might be able to take some cuttings too. It is not difficult and they come quite easily.Best wishes, Everett
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  Quote Jackog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2009 at 12:10am
Hello Aidan,
This is the article:
 
 
 
 
 
 
The text is rather small for page 2, if anyone has a problem with this I will try to
improve it. The problem is related to the 75K upload limitation.
Regards,
                 Jack


Edited by Jackog - 22 Jan 2009 at 12:36pm
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  Quote Aidan3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2009 at 11:49pm
Jack and Everett
 
Thanks ever so much for reprinting this article. It's an absolutely fascinating account and answers a lot of questions. I am still curious however why Crug Farm are advertising their repens under the number DJHC0540. This is another collecters number attributed to Dan Hinckley - maybe he gathered seeds from several specimens?   
 
Aidan 
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  Quote Everett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2009 at 10:50am
Hi Aiden, re your last, I think it is probable that other members of the expedition had seed as well and various plants emanated from these. The plants that we imported probaby came from Dan Hinckleys seed. Another interesting point was our plants were able to climb if given support and trained to do so, whereas Brewster Rogerson expressed surprise when we told him as his had not displayed this trait.The original wild plant was about 12 ft high.E
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  Quote Ron.G.Carlile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2009 at 12:21pm
Hello Everret.
I was looking through your article again , and whilst there is a photo of your plant , I was wondering if you had from Dan Hinckley any photo's of the original plant  in the location where it was found . I have a theory that it was carried up into the tree by other plants , or the other theory would take to long to test out at my age .
This topic has managed to hold interest until the next lot of flowers show them selves.
Best Regards
Ron.C
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  Quote Everett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2009 at 1:42pm
Hello Ron, I have never seen a photo of the original site although I would expect that there is one. Perhap if you ask Dan he might post one through. The original seed collection number of a subsequent expedition that re-visted the same plant as that of the 1996 trip is DJHC 0540(taken from a 2003 catalogue of Heronswood Nursery) Quote from the 2003 catalogue 'This rare and distictive species grew along the Pilgrim's Path on Emei Shan where I first collected seed in 1996. Small partially evergreen leaves are held along climbing stems to 12ft.............I returned to the same area in the autumn of 2000 and collected this seed from the identical individual  that still grows there. My diligent search for additional plants of this species on the upper slopes of Emei ended in futility.'   And by the way Ron, you don't look your age! best wishes, E
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  Quote Aidan3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2009 at 9:29pm
Everett
 
Thanks for the additional information.  You have just solved the mystery why Crug Farm are offering their plant under DJHC 0540 (My earlier post refers). If it's the same identical plant, why has a different seed collection number been given - surely the point of different seed collection numbers is to differentiate between seeds collected from different plants?
 
Thanks
 
Aidan 
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  Quote Ron.G.Carlile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2009 at 10:36pm
Hello Everett.
Thanks very much for the Info., to follow up I would need Dan.s, e-Mail address, I know it would not be prudent to publish it on this site . maybe you could with his permission send it me , by the site e-mail system . Otherwise I haven't a clue how too contact him .
And thanks for the flattery , I am told Age is unavoidable , Growing up is optional .
Thanks again look forward to your reply.
Best Regards
Ron.C


Edited by Ron.G.Carlile - 27 Jan 2009 at 10:37pm
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  Quote Wim Snoeijer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2009 at 7:12am
Good morning Ron,
 
You might try to get in contact with Dan via Maurice Horn of Joy Creek Nursery, USA, see website http://www.joycreek.com/
 
or via Heronswood Nursery, USA, see website http://www.heronswood.com/
 
Best wishes,
 
Wim
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  Quote Everett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2009 at 9:17am
Hi Wim, Thanks for the info. Ron, I'll let you contact Dan to save any confusion. E
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  Quote DaveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2009 at 9:46pm
CryJust aword of warning to all Repens growers ,I had three plants last year bought from a local nursery, they were all growing well until last spring when I hard pruned them as per instructions and they never grew back ,none survived.
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  Quote Wim Snoeijer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2009 at 7:56am

It is always a pity when you loose a plant. The plants I classify in the Campanella Group, like Clematis 'Bells of Emei Shan', are quite susceptable to phytophthora when the compost is wet, to wet, to moist or even moist in winter. 

Try to bring in those plants as dry as possible, just a bit moist, just enough to survive winter.
 
Good luck next time.
 
I always keep in mind that when I a loose plant I finely have room to try something else (preferably a clematis of course).
 
Wim
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