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C. Ruby Wedding
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Nunn00123 View Drop Down
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Posts: 107 		  Quote Nunn00123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: C. Ruby Wedding
    Posted: 01 May 2010 at 6:16pm
Confused from Cambridge!
 
Wishing to purchase Clematis "Ruby Wedding", but finding there are two and what is even more confusing both seem to have been designated a Trade Mark.
 
One is listed in the Clematis Register and Checklist as a Barry Fretwell raising registered in 2005 being a texensis hybrid. The other is a large flowered hybrid pictured as pinkish red (not ruby red) and listed as a new cultivar available from some large retail outlets and nurseries in the UK.
 
Also the Clematis on the Web, lists the Fretwell cutivar.
 
I have been unable to find the raiser of the large flowered cultivar, or to find out which plant has the legitimate name.
 
Can anyone throw any light on this matter.
 
Roy Nunn.
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Ron.Carlile View Drop Down
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Location: Sutton Coldfiel
Posts: 10 		  Quote Ron.Carlile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2010 at 5:13pm

Hi Roy

After reading your mail Re; Ruby Wedding , and as my Wife and I celebrated our
Diamond Wedding last March , I thought a Clematis of that name would be
of interest .  I had a look on the web and a number of growers sites , with no Luck,
I do have a number of un-named clematis so this may be a chance to see if one is suitable to name .  
I suppose some one will come up with one of that name now.
 
Regards
Ron.C
Ron.C
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Dave G View Drop Down
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Posts: 4 		  Quote Dave G Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2010 at 12:56am
TAYLORS CLEMATIS STOCKS THE L F H.
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Nunn00123 View Drop Down
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Posts: 107 		  Quote Nunn00123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2010 at 9:07pm
The texensis hybrid from Barry Fretwell is surely the legitimately named one, as it is listed in the International Clematis Register, unless someone can prove that the LFH has a published reference before the texensis Hybrid, otherwise it is an imposter and should be taken off the market, possibly an impossible task as New Leaf, several Garden Centres, Taylors, Thompson and Morgan, list the LFH.
 
THe Barry Fretwell Ruby Wedding is available from Westphal in Germany and is TRADE MARKED.
 
Why dont brreders look at the International Clematis Register and Checklist, and consult the Clematis Registar before naming plants?
 
Cheers
 
Roy
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yaku View Drop Down
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Posts: 25 		  Quote yaku Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2010 at 11:55am
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Originally posted by Nunn00123

 

Why don't breeders look at the International Clematis Register and Checklist, and consult the Clematis Registrar before naming plants?


Hi Roy.
The one problem is it possible to name on in the Clematis register like Barry's
as well as get one trademarked =NAME IN CAPITAL LETTERS, the other problem is the Clematis register is relative new and is held of RHS and they are not that well recognized (RHS well known for their stubbornness and ignorance)
Many growers are not aware or may be ignorant

Just as an example we here in New Zealand have been growing a Oz hybrid since the sixties named Clematis 'Medley' and there are a Evison trademarked “MEDLEY” = named Cl. 'Evipo012'

and there are the Cl. 'Jenny' (Alister Keay, NZ)Montana Group and Cl. “Jenny” (Cedergren, Se) Viticella Group and we do still see both those names used, we NEED the viticella renamed, why not just call it Cl. 'Jenny Cedergren'

Cheers Peer
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Nunn00123 View Drop Down
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Posts: 107 		  Quote Nunn00123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2010 at 8:55am
Hello Peer,
 
What a mess, we have Plant names being used as TRADE MARKS, where the given name of the plant should have been its trademark (in some cases the plant name is just a series of letters and numbers), I believe this has been done for commercial reasons.
 
If we ignore the Clematis register, now in use for 8 years, we end up with, the same name for different plants, or the same plant with different names.
 
At least one problem has been sorted with Geranium "Rosanne" and "Jolly Bee", both looked identical to me, now the RHS has just anounced that DNA has been carried put on these plants and now only "Rosanne" is recognised.
 
Did you get any more information on the Scale insect problem?
 
I hope all your plants are thriving down under, all bar one of my garden clematis plants got through our severe winter, but ten days ago we had a series of night frosts which cut back a great amount of new growth on many plants.
 
Cheers
 
Roy
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yaku View Drop Down
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Posts: 25 		  Quote yaku Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2010 at 11:39am
< ="-" ="text/; =utf-8">< name="GENERATOR" ="Office.org 3.0 Win32">< ="text/">

Originally posted by Nunn00123

If we ignore the Clematis register, now in use for 8 years, we end up with, the same name for different plants, or the same plant with different names.

At least one problem has been sorted with Geranium "Rosanne" and "Jolly Bee", both looked identical to me, now the RHS has just anounced that DNA has been carried put on these plants and now only "Rosanne" is recognised.

Did you get any more information on the Scale insect problem?
Roy


Hi Roy

I have been registrations plants for well over 30 years and know it is needed and totally agree we need to do that, being frustrated by many plants Rhododendrons and Conifers was propagated by seeds (“they come true from seeds, argument”), I was ref. to other growers, still I want those to  be shared for free (then there are no excuses) in order to get better understanding.

On the DNA I wonder if it are different on sports or where they come from?

The insects are woolly aphids (Japanese) , but I wonder what idiot have introduced it to NZ.

As far as I know we have not imported Clematis from Japan, but you never know. I was just thinking they may have come in from UK. But they could well have been there with a grower and been eradicated as a common woolly aphids. Ants do not move those as they have soldier there will attack any intruders.

Still the best products to use against scaly, woolly insects are Oils, Horticultural oils and that works against mites and mildew as well.

We have just got a bit of rain 200mm in a week and a half, the farmers are happy and so am I , we have had a warm and dry Autumn (Indian Summer)

Cheers Peer
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yaku View Drop Down
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Posts: 25 		  Quote yaku Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2010 at 9:57am
Hi Roy
Did read one of your bits in the IClS Journal and we have earlier discussed doublicate naming, in this case the Cl. "Purety"  on your pic have to change
Cl. Purity' (natural hybrid  Cl. paniculata x fosterii) Reg. 1993-94 PVR
Cheers Peer
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Nunn00123 View Drop Down
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Posts: 107 		  Quote Nunn00123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2010 at 3:40pm
Hi Yaku,
 
This one is too late, Magnus Johnson used this name in 1980. Then we have the Forsteri x paniculata. Also Gubbins refers to a large flowered hybrid in 1997. On this premise there seems no reason why we cannot have a few more with the same name, but this goes to show that the International Register and Check List, if used properly could help prevent duplicate naming now.
 
Roy
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Nunn00123 View Drop Down
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Posts: 107 		  Quote Nunn00123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2010 at 4:48pm
Hi Peer,
 
I just noticed that I made an error on the naming of this plant, It is C. "Prosperity"
 
Cheers
 
Roy
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yaku View Drop Down
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Posts: 25 		  Quote yaku Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2010 at 11:11pm
Originally posted by Nunn00123

Hi Yaku, 
This one is too late, Magnus Johnson used this name in 1980.
Roy

And just to add the confusion, the Cl. paniculata x fosterii  'Purity' are a "Plants Variety Registrant" (=PBR) and those take the name rights , just as in the case of Montana  Cl. 'Jenny', I do aggree the register is a good thing. And I do know the PVR (NZ) do check with the registrar now days.
Cheers Peer
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