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what should i do?

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  Quote digger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: what should i do?
    Posted: 17 Sep 2007 at 4:35pm
Cry Hello everyone, My clematis Vyvyan Pennel was just about to open the flowers yesterday a couple of nice blue single flowers opened , bbut today i went to look and everything is drooping all the buds have bent and are sagging down all limp as are the stems at the top, i think it is wilt early in summer a similar thing happened to just one stem but the plant seemed okay, so what should i do now? should i cut the stems right back to near the ground? should i use some sort of fungicide to prevent this happening to it agian or to my other clematis? if i should use a fungicide could someone please advise me on the right fungicide to use? thank you all i shall be really grateful for your help.
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  Quote Mariko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2007 at 5:20pm
When such a condition comes out,
The obstacle has occurred in the root of 'Vyvyan Pennell' in many cases.
I have dug the plant, wash [ a root ] soak a root in a disinfectant, plant in compost clean after that, and Pot is managed for a while in the shade.
'Vyvyan Pennell' is a beautiful flower, however --   It is thought that such an obstacle occurs easily.
What kinds of measures are taken in United Kingdom?  There is interest very much.

Mariko Japan
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  Quote schristmas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2007 at 11:28pm
The Early large flowered cultivars like Vyvyan Pennel quite often collapse when just opening its flowers, although reasons for this can be more than just wilt.
The advice I would generally give on the first signs of a stem collapsing is to firstly ensure nothing has eaten or severed the stem. I have even seen small larvae that bury into the stem and eat it from the inside although this is quite often recogniseable as they go for the softer growth and thus the lower part of the stem shows no signs of wilting.
If there are no signs of damage, ensure the plant is thoroughly watered to ensure it is not just thirsty and leave it for a day or two.
If the stem does not recover then there are a few more possibilities such as larvae of vine weevils and others soil bound grubs that eat roots and your plant root system can no longer maintain the top growth so it collapses.
Alternatively sharp extremes of weather conditions seem to be having an affect on clematis recently with types such as montanas and recta collapsing for absolutely no apparent reason (although I believe this to be related to extensive periods of wet weather).
If the stems shows no sign of recovery then slowly cut through it working downwards from the top looking for signs where the inside turns from green to brown or black. If you do find an area of discolouration then it has a high probability of being affected by the infection commonly quoted as 'Clematis Wilt' or 'Stem rot'. In most cases this blackened area will occur quite close to the ground (usually at a point where the stem touches the soil) although this is not always true. Remove all growth above this point and keep cutting downwards as far as you need to go for the inside of the stem to return to its green state.
There is currently no known method for stopping this problem although there are a number of countermeasures that can be taken to guard against it and ensure the plant recovers.
Firstly if you are sure you have 'stem rot' then obtain a systemic fungicide and spray any remaining healthy leaves and drench the surrounding soil with the solution. Even if you find that all stems are cut to the ground, drench the soil and add nutrients and the plant should in time recover. As they say prevention is better than cure and next season spray  this plant with fungicide fortnightly and hopefully it might stop the problem occurring although this cannot be guaranteed. Many nurseries can quote no cases of wilt on the nursery using this method although it should be remembered they are growing plants which are not in the soil and open to the elements normally found in a garden.
There has been numerous theories on how this problem is caused and ways of ensuring recovery but there is still no definitive answer to the problem.
One suggestion is to only water the clematis near the base and not over the leaves as this aids the pathogens entry into the stem,
Another too general suggestion is to plant the clematis with at least one node beneath the surface as this ensures the plant can recover if wilt does occur. It should be noted that this last advice only applies to those cultivars that suffer from this problem (mostly the Early flowering large hybrids) and not to all clematis which should definitely not be planted in this manner (despite what some well known television presenters may tell you). There is one well known person in clematis circles that advises this method actually adds to the possibility of the plant getting wilt in the first place.
Any stems you remove should be burnt and definitely not put on the compost heap as it is believed the pathogen can live for long periods in the soil or any surrounding dead vegetation.
This subject has caused a tremendous amount of discussion over the years but until someone finds an absolute definitive cure for it then we just have to do the best we can (or just plant clematis that don't suffer from it- of which there are many).
 
Steve
 
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  Quote Mariko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2007 at 3:13am
Steve, Thank you for much advice. It is almost the same as my method. There are many difficulties in cultivating clematis in Japan.
After the rainy season of Japan, The same state as the clematis of digger is seen.
The cool of U.K is very enviable.

Mariko Japan
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  Quote digger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2007 at 10:56am
Thank you so much for taking the time to give me so much useful advice, I have cut off the affected stems which is all of them. They did go completely brown leaves and all. I bought Vyvyan Pennel because it has such a beautiful flower. Perhaps I should excavate the roots and pot them up into the greenhouse? I shall spray the plant with cheshunt compound and keep my fingers crossed. Once again many many thanks for your time and advice. regards digger.
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  Quote digger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2007 at 6:40pm
Hi Mariko, I am not sure that the UK climate is really something to be enviable aboutSmile I have had some quite bad luck this year, I have lost Arctic Queen as well as Vyvyan Pennel, is your japanese climate greatly different from the UK my friend?
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2007 at 2:52pm
I now avoid most group 2 clematis, as the problem you describe has become a great problem in our garden. It seems to me that once the form of die back occurs in ones garden it is impossible to stop it happening. None of the domestic fungicides are able to control this either. For peace of mind, dig up the plant, compost it and plant a group 3 clematis in its place. Problem solved as far as I am concerned.
 
 
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2007 at 5:12pm
I agree! I've taken the same decision.
Paul
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  Quote digger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2007 at 5:46pm
 It looks like i may have to take a similar decision.
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  Quote Mariko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2007 at 12:00am
Hi digger.
 
The climates of UK and Japan differ very much.
There is the rainy season in Japan. (June-July)(September)
After that, the sun of midsummer!!
The clematis which contained moisture enough in the rainy season is troubled with this sun.
The heat exceeding 40 degrees continues every day.
People who have the experience which lived in the tropics, they say. "It is too hot in summer of Japan"
Even if it is in a house, if neither an old man nor a child drinks a drink, it will become heatstroke. It cannot live without an air-conditioner!!  Exaggerated?  But it is not.
From now on (September - November), a season suitable for clematis comes.
texensis cannot be raised well.Cry


Edited by Mariko - 28 Sep 2007 at 12:08am

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  Quote digger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2007 at 9:55am
Wow mariko i had no idea about the climate in Japan, there is a link from this website to a website in Japan, and there are some beautiful examples of very fine clematis grown in Japan. The 40 degrees heat must be very challenging. I live in the North of the UK and as you probably know in summer we are lucky to get 20 degrees! I have lifted the clematis Vyvyan Pennel after cutting back the dead foliage and potted the roots up and now they are in the greenhouse, i hope that it will recover.
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  Quote Mariko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2007 at 2:11pm
Hi, digger.
Japan is a north and south long and slender country.
There is an area of the climate similar to UK.
May your 'Vyvyan Pennell' grow up vigorously! Smile
 
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There is many friends' flower.

 

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  Quote digger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2007 at 2:32pm
Thank you Mariko, I do hope Vyvyann Pennel pulls through, I have looked at your website there are stunning pictures, and each clematis looks in excellent condition, you really do know how to grow clematis my friend.Smile
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  Quote digger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2007 at 2:40pm
Hi Schristmas, My clematis arabella is in a large pot at the front door and i was told to plant it deep over the first node, was this correct?
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  Quote schristmas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2007 at 12:13am
Hi Digger,
 
'Arabella' is a Barry Fretwell cross with one of its parents being integrifolia.
It does not suffer from wilt (as far as I am aware) and therefore it does not need to be planted in the manner you have described.
My previous example and my current example (moved house 2 years ago) were never planted deep and have never suffered from 'wilt'.
 
Steve
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  Quote digger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2007 at 10:25am
Thanks for that Steve, My plant is in a big container near the front door I shall re plant it properly. The problem i think is that most people get told by the garden centre staff etc plant it deeper than it was in the pot. I have come across this advice even in horticulture books! "plant all clematis deeper by a good three inches". This type of information is too general. I am grateful for your advice Steve as you can no doubt tell I am quite new to growing clematis.
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