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USA mixture seedlings

Printed From: British Clematis Society Forum
Category: Clematis
Forum Name: Postings
Forum Discription: General chat and help about anything Clematis
Printed Date: 12 Jul 2020 at 4:51am
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Topic: USA mixture seedlings
Posted By: Aidan2
Subject: USA mixture seedlings
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2008 at 11:22pm
Hello everyone
I have germinated 9 seeds so far from the USA mixture packet given free with "The Clematis journal". I germinate them on damp kitchen roll paper in a tuperware box. I placed them in the box in February and the seeds started to sprout about June, some are still sprouting - latest was a week ago (although there are about 25 still dormant. 
As soon as they start to sprout I plant them. Some I have planted in a pot with john innes seed compost mixed with vermiculite and some in acadama mixed with vermiculite using the outer and inner plastic cup method advocated by Tsuyoshi Isojima (see "Clematis International 2008 journal). I got the idea of using acadama from a post by Ton Hannink on this site, but thought it needed mixing with something such as vermiculite to improve drainage.
Anyway, so far using these methods, 2 seedlings have emerged from the ones planted in pots and 1 in the acadama mixture (although I can see another is just emerging).
However the point of all this is to say that these seedlings are incredibly slow growing from the point when they sprout to when they push through the earth and then the growth itself. I have grown orientalis seedings which grow so fast there is no comparison. These USA mixture seedlings take forever to develop - even when the seeds have sprouted they take about 5 weeks to push through the soil and then they grow really slowly and look very fragile. It's almost enough to make you give up.
I know the seeds develop by hypogeal germination which seems to take longer than epigeal germination but I had no idea it was so slow.  Has anyone else experienced this?

Posted By: digger
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2008 at 1:17pm
Hello aidan my friend, can you tell me where you got the akadama from please?
I struggled to find some but I don't leave too far from Leeds I'm just on the WestYorks,East lancs border, I spoke with a Japanese grower and they were using something called HB101 as a rooting aid prior to the hormone gel, of course I can't find any of that either.

Posted By: Aidan2
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2008 at 10:59pm
Hello digger
I got the akadama mail order from Green Dragon Bonsai supplies website It's quite expensive when you include the postage but you can also buy small amounts. I mixed it with vermiculite but the Japanese grit Kyodama also looks good which you can get from the site. I also use Japanese Bonsai general purpose scissors 190mm and Japanese fine trimming scissors 150mm for taking clematis cuttings as they are great for really fine fiddly work. Dont know about the hormone rooting gel but would be interested in getting some.

Posted By: digger
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2008 at 12:54pm
Hi Aidan thanks for the link, the rooting compound that I am using is clonex rooting gel, which is what Roy Nunn is using you can get it from - the shop caters mainly I think to a certain group of people that are not really clematis growers if you know what i mean, but the clonex is available from them, they did have a liquid called root matrix that i wanted to try instead of hb101, they stems are soaked for a few hours in the mixture, prior to using the rooting gel but they stopped selling root matrix, they do have some alternatives but I have not tried them out, best wishes my friend

Posted By: Ron.G.Carlile
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2008 at 8:01pm
Hi Digger
I thought that i had learned enough to grow most types of Clematis , but the Old Dog has still something to learn , I have been growing from seed and cuttings for years , and all I have used is sterilized soil , course sand , peat
and vermiculite . and have had good results,I used to sterilize the mixture in the seed pot with boiling water , but for a number for years now , I have done the sterilizing in a microwave , and sown the seeds when the mixture is well drained and cool.  I found out from experience with other plants that drop their seed on to the ground and wait for the rain to wash them in that it was not as I had been told necessary to plant the seed deep, but to put the seed in at an angle with the top just below the surface .  To get the best results and edge my bets one pot of a variety wold be put where it could get frosted and then brought into the warmth , and the other pot would be kept in the greenhouse
according to the variety I  had a reasonable number germinate . I have never had 100% the best has been around 70% . To be honest
I have always believed that all plants want to live and grow if given the correct situation for the species. Again Thanks for the information I have gained from the exchange of mail .


Posted By: digger
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2008 at 1:54pm
Hi Ron Thanks for your tips, I also use the microwave oven for sterilising compost, I have my own in the greenhouse after the missus caught me using the one in the kitchen. I have germinated some seeds that were sent to me from the BCS they are viticella, two germinted very quickly and a few more have just germinated several months after the others. I got lucky with some cuttings in spring they were from macropetalas rooted in perlite and a propagator, when I re potted them on, two died, I have now read Roy's article and I now realise that I should have been more careful with their environment when I potted them up, I have got so so much to learn and I am determined to have some success, I just need the know how and of course the experience, this forum is a Godsend.

Posted By: bcollingwood
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2008 at 11:45pm
Hi Aidan,
IMHO the biggest favour you can do yourself is to go on with the USA mix and grow-on every plant you get to flowering and 'maturity'. You'll get tremendous pleasure from them, I only say that because I have grown a few. I can absolutely guarantee that you won't regret it!

B. R. Collingwood

Posted By: digger
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2008 at 10:54am
Hi Brian, i germinated a few seeds in springtime, they are making good growth, but I was wondering what is the best place for them over winter/ they are not very big yet and are still in the lean to greenhouse in the heated soilbed, the clematis greenhouse is not heated but i could put a parrafin heater in there for winter, or should I keep them in the relative comfort of the warm leanto? 

Posted By: bcollingwood
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2008 at 4:04pm
If you try - there is lots of info about overwintering, or give me a ring anytime 0161 950 5329.

B. R. Collingwood

Posted By: Everett
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2009 at 11:10pm
Hi Aiden. I am surprised you had such quick germination and I am wondering whether you have seeds in there that are not from the viorna group. Generally speaking the viorna group take at least 12 months to germinate. In fact I had success with wild collected texensis that germinated between 2 & 4 years after being set. If they germinate late in the season leave them in the pot until the spring-they will look like little dead sticks but no matter about that. When they get to about 2 inches tall I pinch out the growing tip to encourage a better root system and hopefully make the plant break into 2 stems. When I had a green house it was never heated and I used capillary matting under the pots.Good luck. Everett

Posted By: MMiller
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2009 at 1:53am
I realize you posted a while ago, but I, too, hope you give them a chance, as slow going as they are.  If you grow any of the viorna group in the future, I found I can speed up germination on some of them by soaking them 12-36 hours in water, peeling off the seed coat, then keeping them in moist vermiculite at 20C.  I think by getting them fully imbibed (and perhaps leaching off any germination inhibitors by soaking and removing any mechanical or chemical inhibition from the seed coat), and keeping them warm, they germinate within 2-3 months, then sprout a few weeks after that.

Take this with a grain of salt, thought, since my experience tends to be with my own seed which is sown fresh.

Posted By: Everett
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2009 at 10:56am
I have experimented with sowing viona types whilst still green and have achieved germination that way although it still took a long time for the event to happen. How do you manage to do the operation-with a scalpel? E

Posted By: Aidan3
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2009 at 7:47pm
On the Gardenbuddies site there is a recent post by Takechianman (Takeshi) called: - How to peel off outer coat of seed of Atragene. which gives some really useful advice on how to do this (I have yet to try it, let alone use gibberellin 3!)

Posted By: Ron.G.Carlile
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2009 at 10:12pm
Hi All.
I have what I thought was a C.viona from the BCS seed exchange , but there must have been a mistake in the label ,as now it has flowered I am told it is not a C.viona , the flower is blue and is of the small tube like flower it flowers well and is pleasing to the eye .  I found the seeds were taking a long time to germinate , so as I had this trouble with other types of seed where the outer case was inhibiting germination , I scratched a few seeds out of the pot and and broke the outer skin at both ends , ( I think it is called  chitting )then only one of the half dozen or so  seeds germinated and that is the plant I have now .  Due to circumstances the rest of the seeds dried out and were thrown ,  I collected seed last year from the plant ( C.viona ?) I just soaked them thats all ,if there is no result I will chit them again and have another try . I will try and have more patience with them this time
Best of luck all .


Posted By: Everett
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2009 at 9:38am
Hi all , the site quoted above is great and i shall be having a go in undressing some Buckland beauty x texensis seed. Does one have to play 'The Stripper' in the background while you are doing it? E

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