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Clematis Armandii Wind Damage

Printed From: British Clematis Society Forum
Category: Clematis
Forum Name: Postings
Forum Discription: General chat and help about anything Clematis
URL: http://www.britishclematis.org.uk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=461
Printed Date: 26 Apr 2018 at 1:02am
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Topic: Clematis Armandii Wind Damage
Posted By: cookymunster
Subject: Clematis Armandii Wind Damage
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2012 at 8:09pm
Hi all, just two things...

1.  I just wanted to show people what a wind damaged Clematis Armandii looks like. I think the leaves have been spinning in the wind so much that their stems have buckled and collapsed at their weakest point.








2.   Please can anyone tell me why the new growth (below) is wilting and dying. Is this due to:

1. Wind?
2. Under watering?
3. Over watering?
4. It's finished flowering and is now in July?

The pot is 60cm high by 45cm wide & deep. I water it once a week with 8 liters of water (1 can full), I also include a multipurpose feed.










Replies:
Posted By: Ron.Carlile
Date Posted: 02 Jul 2012 at 12:00pm
Hi
Two things does the container drain , if so are you feeding it, looks a large
plant for the size of the container .


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Ron.C


Posted By: cookymunster
Date Posted: 02 Jul 2012 at 7:25pm
Hi Ron

Yes, the pot drains and I also put 2inches of gravel at the bottom to help drain. Yes I use Multipurpose feed (every other full watering can).

I always wonder if I'm not watering enough because of the very high pot.


Posted By: yaku
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2012 at 9:30am

the pics show broken leaf stem, suggesting wind damage, the container looks rather large to the size of plant for me.
Gravel in the bottom do NOT IMPROVE DRAIN, but causing hanging water due to water tension and give poor capillary effect, best is mix to the bottom !!

I do know it rain regularly in UK, but once a week watering are a bit low, suggest companion planting and water with less water 3 times a week, mix should be well draining and NO water crystals, but a good wetting agent, used as recommended ( wetting agent improve drainage) it's important to have a good air to water ratio in the mix!



Posted By: cookymunster
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2012 at 10:45am
Thanks Yaku

I'll water as you say and find a wetting agent too.

I did have a Passiflora Amethyst growing to the right of this plant, but the frost killed it. (Hence the gap to the right of the plant). I'll have to find another buddy for this Clematis.

Thanks Smile


Posted By: yaku
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2012 at 8:11am
growing passion fruit are not the easy option, they will always catch the "Flue" Phytopthora (root rot) and this could well be what has taken your Cl. armandi, if there are  Phytopthora in your mix it will definitely kill your Clematis.
We use to have a 12 m. high Cl. armandii 'Snowdrift' (the true one) in the garden, it sadly did die from Phytopthora 3 years ago. Here its visible in the trees (centre background)



Posted By: Ron.Carlile
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2012 at 7:38pm
Hi
I agree with Peer's about using gravel for drainage mixed with clay it
sets like concrete and stops drainage instead of draining , beter to use broken crocks or any thing that has space to allow drainage .  My C.armandii are not large enough to flower as yet .  I should be OK my garden drains much to fast . Hope your plant recovers.
 
 


-------------
Ron.C


Posted By: cookymunster
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2012 at 8:36pm
Wow Yaku what a beautiful garden.

Thanks for all your advice, and I shall have another think on which plant to place with the C. Armandii. The wetting agent is in the post.


Posted By: yaku
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2012 at 9:55am
Originally posted by Ron.Carlile

Hi
I agree with Peer's about using gravel for drainage mixed with clay it
sets like concrete and stops drainage instead of draining , beter to use broken crocks or any thing that has space to allow drainage .  My C.armandii are not large enough to flower as yet .  I should be OK my garden drains much to fast . Hope your plant recovers.
 
 

Hi Ron
the use of crocks and so do not work, it's an old way of doing things and it do not work as you need cappilary actions and water can't pass up from below and will not pass down before the soil over is saturated! Reason: Water tension!!
BEST: same mix from top to bottom, pumice or crocks in the mix are helpful.Smile


Posted By: Nunn00123
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2012 at 12:14pm
Hi Per,
 
At last someone who knows that using crocks in the bottom of pots actually causes drainage to be reduced rather than encouraging this. I read some research that was carried out over a century ago where it was proved that drainage was best controlled if a) the pot was filled with compost troughout and b) water drains away much more effectively if the pot is set in a sand plunge bed, but to some extent standing the pot on sand helps drainage, even standing the pot directly onto a concrete surface gives better drainage than using gravel or crocks in the pot. Pot feet are a disaster also as the pots are more likely to tip over in a wind.
 
Roy


Posted By: yaku
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2012 at 10:14am
Hi Roy
as a landscaper I learned early days "no capillary, no drainage" the highly sophisticated drain some engineers recommended did first work 4-5 years down the line when the soil had sunk into the cavities in the gravel, whereas the "Dumb Farmer" did throw top soil around the drain pipe and then filled in and the drain started working within a couple of days.


Posted By: Ron.Carlile
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2012 at 5:10pm
Hi Peer's
I have tried both ways standing pots with crocks ,and full compost
pots , the best results I have is still with crocks ,in all my pots stood on
concrete , Full pots just make homes for wood lice , and standing on my clay/sand soil worm casts which block up the drainage . The best results I have had is to bury the first few inches /cmtrs in the soil with compost filled pots .
but on the flat hard surface , there is just a build up of wet sticky soil
which stops drainage ,  I still pref ere crocks on a hard surface . Which I believe the pot was stood on .  I have just had to re-pot a large Dalia because I filled the pot with compost and stood it on a path , it had almost drowned water was lying on the surface .  I do what I see works for me and that is all I can go on .


-------------
Ron.C


Posted By: yaku
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2012 at 9:02am
I do know direct placing on concrete do not work, best is standing on sand, or a drainage mat


Posted By: Nunn00123
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2012 at 10:28am
Hi Ron,
 
Seems to me you are using the wrong compost, water lying on the surface of compost certainly would indicate compaction with too fine particles in your compost mix. Roots also need air and this can only be provided by adding a combination of larger particles to your mix. I find most JI (soil based) composts are too fine in texture and do not drain well enough, I always add bark chips, composted bark, perlite, gritsand and/or hen grit to aid important air gaps which will also aid drainage. I also find that most peat free composts drain too qiuckly, so a combination of JI and peat free works very well. Get your compost drainage correct, then their is no need add crocks, better to fill your pots with compost and stand your pots onto a sand bed.
 
Cheers
 
Roy


Posted By: cookymunster
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2012 at 7:23pm
Well finally my Clematis Armandii died.

When I dug it out I found that the roots had all balled up in a fist size clump with only 4 long and very thin roots of about 40cm long. This root system was not big enough to sustain it's 3 meter high growth.

I think that If I had separated out the roots properly before I planted it then the root system would be free to spread out.

Lesson learnt and the new 'Freckles' has gone in with a lovely free root system. Fingers crossed Smile

Any more info on this would be fab.


Posted By: Nunn00123
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2012 at 8:00am
Hi,
 
I have noticed that in some cases, in the early stages of planting out, clematis top growth seems to get ahead of root growth, to the extent that the root system can no longer support the extensive top growth. Teasing out roots seems to make little difference in my case. I have found that a pot bound plant, where the roots are tightly packed in its pot is the most likely candidate for this root restriction. I have overcome this by potting on the plant into the next size pot and cutting back any top growth down to two nodes above compost level. Keep pinching out top growth during the growing period, allowing the next set of nodes to develope. The plant will then be ready for planting out in the Autumn or the following spring. Again it is an advantage to prune back any newly planted clematis taking away about half of its top growth if planting out during the growing season and to cut back any top growth to encourage more stems to develope and to allow the root system to develope. Another cause of poor root development can be poorly drained, or unsuitable compost. I have never grown C. armandii, because our garden is too exposed and I do not have enough room to accommodate such a plant, but my general rule is that some clematis thrive best if planted in the ground, mainly these are the vigorous types such as C. montana, fargeoidese, rehderiana,  Kaiu and although I have never grown it I would put armandii in this catagory.
 
You mention that you are growing C. Freckles, this plant does well in full sun, and requires very well drained soil or compost to grow and flower to its best. Despite what is said about not priuning this plant I find that I have to prune each year, timed to when my Forsythia is in bloom. I usually cut Freckles back to about 3 feet and find that it will easily make 4 or 5 feet of extra growth, which means that winter flowering is in sight and not 30 to 50 feet away, needing a ladder or binoculars to appreciate the flowers.
 
Roy


Posted By: cookymunster
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2012 at 12:16pm
Thanks Roy for all your advice.
Especially how to look after C. Freckles. Yes it's in full sun and good compost. Glad to see that your Freckles grows very well. I hope mine will do as well too at 4 – 5 feet. I too have a Forsythia and shall bare in mind the pruning timing, pruning won't be for some time yet as it's 6" high.

HAHA!!! ladder or binoculars LOL

I suppose this post can end with the parting of my C. Armadii ?



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